Ezekiel 38 Happens AFTER the 1,000 Year Reign of Christ

Many voices are trumpeting the soon-coming invasion of the Holy Land by Gog and Magog and Co.  Even Prime Minister Netanyahu recently said that the invasion was coming soon.   They cite Ezekiel 38 as proof that this war will be started by Russia and Iran in the very near future.

These claims are unfounded and untrue.  Footnotes in most Bibles for Ezk. 38: 2 sends us to Revelation 20: 8, where we see that same Gog and Magog leading other satanically deceived nations.  But when does this happen?  Verse 7 is the first half of the sentence, and it says, “And when the thousand years are expired [the 1,000 year reign of Christ], Satan shall be loosed out of prison, and shall go out to deceive the nations…Gog and Magog, to gather them to battle…and they went up…and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city,” Jerusalem (v. 7-9).

This is after the 1,000 year reign of Christ upon the earth.  Gog and Magog, Russia and Iran and Co., will be used by God that way at that time.  Not in our day, not in our present time.

Here is more proof that the invasion of Jerusalem by Gog and Magog comes not at this time in history.  The Promised Land at the time of the invasion of Gog and Magog will be at total peace (read 1,000 year reign of peace).  The invaders shall find the population living in a “land of unwalled villages.”  They are “at rest” and “dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates” (Ezk 38: 11).

That is the cultural environment that Gog and Magog will find.  The Israeli state today is preparing for war, both its citizens and the army.  They are not dwelling safely and have many bars and gates on their houses and neighborhoods.  No rest and peace are found in the Israeli state.  Rocket attacks have become  a daily occurance.  Fear and uncertainty are a constant, present reality.

This is why I say that the Gog and Magog attack of Ezekiel 38 will be much later in history.

One more reason.  The inhabitants of the Holy Land, who are living in complete peace and rest, will come from all the twelve tribes of Israel.  Right now primarily Jews live in the Israeli state.  True Jews come out of the Kingdom of Judah, whose subjects were descended from only two tribes–Judah and Benjamin.  The other Ten Tribes of Israel  were “lost” to most after the Kingdom of Israel (Ten Tribes) was carried into captivity around 721 B.C.  Members from all twelve tribes will be present at the time of the invasion of the Promised Land.

Furthermore, after the 6th Seal is opened, 12,000 of each of the twelve tribes are sealed (Rev. 7: 3-8; 14: 1-7).  In other words, the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel will be found and will populate Jerusalem during the 1,000 year reign.  Christ said that He was sent to them.  The apostle James wrote to them; “to the twelve tribes scattered abroad, greeting” (James 1: 1).  Paul said that  “our twelve tribes” were “instantly serving God day and night” waiting upon the promises of God (Acts 26: 7).

If there is an invasion by Russia and Iran, it will not be that which is spoken of in Ezekiel 38.

Advertisements

65 Comments

Filed under apostles' doctrine, end time prophecy, false doctrines, Lost Sheep of the House of Israel

65 responses to “Ezekiel 38 Happens AFTER the 1,000 Year Reign of Christ

  1. Okay when it talks about reigning with Christ it’s talking about those who were beheaded for His sake… this isn’t on the earth, but in the celestial heaven on thrones with Christ and God and all that… not for a thousand years, but a thousand years had passed since they began to be martyred on Earth… Read about the dark ages and the martyrdom of many Christians under the hand of the Catholic church… Foxe Book of Martyrs is an excellent source.

  2. Devorah

    A thousand years since the martyrs were beheaded during the Dark Ages is what you think the passage is referring to? The thousand year Millennium is what is meant in the passage. Those reigning with Christ during the Millennium are those from the First Resurrection. This will be on earth, not in heaven as you state. You need to study this area much more. If you had studied, you would realize that Satan will be loosed again after the end of the Millennium, to gather some nations OF the EARTH, again to rebel against Christ. See Rev. 20:6-10, where it states plainly “on the earth” a couple of times; when the nations are gathered together in rebellion against Christ by Satan, who is loosed for a short season after the Millennium period – again ‘on earth’ not in heaven! More proof? In Rev. 21 it states plainly that Heaven and Earth become ONE as the New Jerusalem comes down to EARTH from God, as His Bride. Once this occurs, there will be no more separate heaven, it will be residing upon or with the ‘new’ earth: Rev. 21:1.
    Therefore your wrong conclusion that a thousand year reign occurs in ‘heaven’ and not on ‘earth’ has hereby been proven to be erroneous.

  3. Ian

    I believe the scriptures are clear that Ezekiel 38,39 is referring to the period of time prior to the Great Tribulation. The Jews in biblical times divided history since the fall of man into two ages: before Messiah comes to rule the world (to their way of thinking, that is this present age) and when Messiah is present ruling the world. (“the age to come” or “the Messianic age”) The scriptures reveal no military warfare will take place during Messiah’s reign in the future Messianic age (Isa. 2:1-4,9:6-7) By contrast, Ezekiel 38: 8-16 indicates that military warfare will take place “in the latter years” and “later days.”
    The attack you are referring to in Rev. 20:8 is rallied by Satan which includes all nations in attempt to overthrow the Lord Jesus Christ and his millennial kingdom, a totally different attack with different purpose and outcome. If you make a comparison of Ezekiel 38: 15-23 and Rev. 20: 7-10 you will discover many extreme differences. In Ezekiel 38:23 you will notice that God is revealing himself, making himself known to the nations. In Rev.20: 9, the Lord has no reason to declare anything because the whole world knows who He is, so in an instant (no battle, no earthquake) fire from heaven devours these armies and then He proceeds to deal with Satan alas!

    • Ian, thanks for taking the time to comment. However, you did not address nor refute the points I made as proof that Gog and Magog will attack after the 1,000 year reign. Please reread the article. I concentrated on the passage in Ezekiel 38 where their armies come into the Promised Land where the “mountains of Israel,” His people, from the regathered twelve tribes are dwelling safely in unwalled villages. The country of Israel and the land of Palestine in general is far from being a safe place. And speaking of walls–please. The Israelis are building more and more walls by the day! Of course, I am not here to persuade you on this point; I just share the truth as I see it from the scriptures. Until you get the revelation of the lost sheep of the House of Israel and who they are and how God is going to restore a remnant of them to the Holy Land, then all of this is moot. Most of modern day Jewry are not from the lost tribes of Israel. At best they come from the Kingdom of Judah/two tribes. See Dec. 2010 articles or type into the “search” slot ‘lost sheep.’ God bless you in your search. wh

  4. Ian

    Thanks for your quick response. Wayneman; it is very important not to isolate specific scriptures such as Ezekiel 38 and expect it alone answer the question of God’s timing for the attack on Israel by Gog and Magog. Yes it is true that this scripture (v: 11) refers to “My people Israel” living in safety in unwalled villages prior to this surprise attack. But remember that scripture is always in harmony and it is important to note that scripture must interpret scripture. In order to understand this prophecy, some background in the prophetic foreview of the end of the age is necessary. The prophecies of Daniel must be brought into play in order to illuminate this passage. Daniel predicts the rise of a political leader (Antichrist) whom signs an agreement with Israel that guarantees “peace and safety” for Israel along with granting the nation rights to practicing burnt offerings in a newly constructed temple. After three-and-a-half years, the Antichrist will break this treaty and usher in the Great Tribulation.

    • Thank you, Ian. Something to think about. wh

      • There will be two wars, the war ivolving the nations of the world against Isreal will happen before Tribulations, that is what some are calling the war of the Middle East. I have read many who believe Gog/Magog is that such war. I then read Revelations and Daniel and Ezekiel and I am now convinced that the Gog Magog war is after the 1000 years. Unless the bible is referring to two wars that we will call Gog/Magog war. One before and one after the 1000 years.

      • Re: “There will be two wars”…I totally agree with you, bdlynn…Could you explain more thoroughly how you came to this conclusion? KWH

      • Hi Wayneman,
        Yes in Revelations 20:7,1-9 “And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be released from his prison and will come out to decieve the nations which are at the four corners of the earth, that Gog, and Ma’gog, to gather them for battle; their number is like the sand of the sea”.
        So since most people believe the big war before Tribulations against Isreal is Gog, Ma’gog the only thing I can think is that there are two wars named Gog, Ma’gog or that particuliar war is saved for after the 1000 reign. ! ?

        If anyone may understand this better than myself, please share with me, I am new to the Lords true Word (Bible understanding).

        God Bless and thanks

        Linda

    • I am reading prophets these days. I thought that the war of Gog and Magog was going to happen soon but, one thing that always called my attention in the Old Testament is that they always speak of a time in which Israel will dwell in peace, in secure homes, without borders. It does not speak of a relative peace but an absolute peace or a total confidence that they are safe. Evidently this is far from the Israel we know today, honestly, it is a little difficult to believe that in this perverse world, with a special taste for iniquity, a territory or the union of several territories could reach total peace and security.

      One of the arguments against the theory that is the same Gog Magog War is that in Revelation all countries meet in fury against Israel, while in the book of Ezekiel are only a few territories. I find no contradiction with this, it does not seem to me a very solid argument against. Nor does it seem to me a solid argument that in Ezekiel’s vision, God is shown while in the other it is not necessary, because we all know and recognize Him. Now, there is some points that clearly point to a PreMillennium War: Ezekiel 39:21/22, 39:25/26, 39:29 these verses totally contradict the possibility that the event will happen after the millennium. Also, if there is the sane war, why Ezekiel’s prophecy didn’t say anything about Satan and the lake of fire? Ezekiel’s prophecy talks about fire too but in the same context?

  5. Charlie in Arkansas

    Hey Wayne……………..

    I saw your post about Ezekiel’s Gog-Magog invasion being the same as the Gog-Magog in Revelation 20. You hit the proverbial nail squarely on the head. God Bless!

    Charlie

    • Thank you, Charlie, for your comment. I am glad that you found my blog and have subscribed to it. Feel free to comment on the blog and share your thoughts. Stay in touch.

  6. Mischa

    If I might add a little point…(until now I never saw anyone else mention this (‘theory’) I am excited that I am not alone in it.

    Yes, the Antichrist comes with peace and safety. However, as long as Islam exists, Israel will never believe that they will be forever out of danger, which brings me to my point. Ez. mentions an unwalled city. Israel is NOT an unwalled city NOW. Even if in relative peace with the nations around them, they will not bring that wall down. In this world we live in, treaties expire. New leaders, new laws. Israel (& the entire region) has never been and will never be at rest in this phase of Gods plan. Unless somehow the wall is destroyed, it can’t happen now. The wall continues to grow, though progress has been slow in the last couple of years it continues.

    This planet will be relatively leveled at the start of the 1000 years. Man will be “more rare then gold” no more tall buildings, mountains…walls.

    It is essentially the reset button. It speaks in these days (before the final battle of Armageddon) of horses and chariots and swords again…and I do not believe this is figurative. Its not talking about great powers or describing weapons that destroy with fire. I Imagine after the earth is leveled, most weapons & machinery would be destroyed. And 1000 years of peace, living with no fear would make them obsolete anyway. There would be no rebuilding of military technology, or weapons of war because there is no need for them. THIS is when the holy city will be without walls.

    We have to really stand in amazement of God. The prophets of the past searched diligently for what would lead to the coming of the messiah. And none of what they found, was for them. It was for those living in the time of Christ.
    Then the prophets who told of what to expect before the second coming knew not for themselves, but for us in this day.

    So why wouldn’t there also be prophesy foretelling the people of the world over 1000 years from now what to expect at their worlds end? Remember, much like now, they won’t know when this end will come, just when it will start. We have to assume they will not stop keeping history or recording time. BUT, it might be interrupted for a short while. They may know exactly when the 1000 years end, but they may be a little off depending on the recovery process. But unlike the 1000 years, Satan is loosed for an unspecified time. So God gives these clues, so they will know as the final battle draws near. Satan could be loosed for 2, 50, 700 years. They will then have this prophesy to search, the same way we do today. And perhaps the same obstacles, trying to separate what has already happened…from what has yet to come.

    • Mischa, thanks very much for the thoughtful comment. It is nice to hear someone else look more deeply into Ezk. 38 and believe what is actually written, and then put 2 and 2 together about the unwalled villages. Yes they will come down and the earth will be at peace for 1,000 years and then the uprising will raise its ugly head again. kwh

  7. Mischa

    Thanks! I appreciate that.

    There is also another point that I find curious. Maybe you can offer some insight. I realize that much of Revelation is in a seemingly random order until Chaps 19-20 where there seems to begin a sequential order. This leads me to believe there are perhaps more ‘clues’ more precious hidden little stumbling blocks for those that search the scripture not seeking truth to strengthen their spiritual marriage with Christ…but to seek their own interests. This makes me curious…

    Revelation 16:3 (KJV) Says…

    3And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and “EVERY” living soul died in the sea.

    Yet EZ 38 (Emphasis on v20) says…

    18And it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, that my fury shall come up in my face.

    19For in my jealousy and in the fire of my wrath have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel;

    20So that the FISHES OF THE SEA, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground.

    ….So was there a replenishing? (just how parallel, is end times prophecy with “The beginning” of creation? Remember, God calls those things which are NOT as though they were)

    Is v21…

    21And I will call for a sword against him throughout all my mountains (didn’t mountains fall as well?), saith the Lord GOD: every man’s sword shall be against his brother.

    Related directly with…

    Matthew 10:33-35 (King James Version)

    33But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

    34Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

    35For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

    Now we know He came as the blood sacrifice for the salvation of the believer…but judgment is still reserved for the unrighteous. And we are talking about the span of time JUST before judgment.

    I ‘thought’ this post would be shorter, lol. Sorry.

  8. Hi Wayneman,
    I am glad to see this post I have held this view for lots of years and google your post. I was looking to see if this revelation would be revealed to others. I have always heard teachers linking eze 38-39 together but they happen in different times eze 39 I believe happens at revelation 19 because the fowl of the air are called to eat the flesh of Kings. plus the Whole house of Israel 12 tribes will know his name eze 39:7, 22 they will come out of exile eze 39:23, 25 and verse 26 says they will dwell safely thats during 1000yrs messiah dwells on the earth. then there will be no need for walls bars and gates because the Torah Isa 2:2-4 will be the law of the land. after the 1000 yrs satan is loosed and convinces the nations to take a spoil ( all the wealth of the nations will be poured into jerusalem zec 14:14) I glad to see this post because scriptures give light on scriptures. until we go back to hebraic thinking we will not understand the scriptures Luke 24:27, 32, 44. the box of Christianty thinking is very small and linear but the Hebrew box is big and circular like the seasons. YHVH is restoring the truth and knowledge Dan 12:4 the hebrew word is Ha da`ath the knowledge. what is the knowledge? Its the word of God.

    Shalom
    Bill Turner

    • Thank you, Bill, for your comment. I believe you are right on the mark. The trouble with most is that they have not “purged out the old leaven” doctrines taught to them since childhood, like the rapture and prosperity doctrines. We need to approach the scriptures with our minds cleaned out of all preconceived ideas and let it just speak to us for what it actually says. Like a literature major has to do at the university. It interprets itself that way. Keep in touch. KWHancock

  9. wideawake

    I agree with this article and I have bee trying to tell people this. They cant seem to see beyond all the Christian mus-information that has been brainwashed into them. There is a 1000 more years of prophecy left after the reign of Christ. People seem to think it all ends when Christ returns. Revelations 20 lays out the whole timeline.

    • Thanks for the comment, wideawake. The ‘old leaven’ doctrines sown into the minds of the sheeple over the last 2000 years have ‘blinded the minds of them who believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ should shine unto them.’ Couldn’t agree more. kwh

  10. Pro 25:28 He that hath no rule over his own spirit is like a city that is broken down, and without walls.

    The land of unwalled villages is talking about the apostate church. The Gog Magog war is raging today. The thousand year reign began at the cross.

    Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

    The word “thousand”
    is G5507
    χίλιοι
    chilioi
    khil’-ee-oy
    Plural of uncertain affinity; a thousand: – thousand.

    Thousand means an uncertain affinity. It’s not actually 1 thousand years.

    Satan was bound at the cross, has been running the show from prison till about 50 or 60 years ago when the True gospel (the restrainer) has been slowly but surely diminished to today when the true Gospel is gone. The only ones teaching the true Gospel are the Remnant in the wilderness.

    Satan has been loosed out of his prison. The bottomless pit (the rabbit hole) of deception is opened. What comes out of the pit> Locusts.

    Joe 1:4 That which the palmerworm hath left hath the locust eaten; and that which the locust hath left hath the cankerworm eaten; and that which the cankerworm hath left hath the caterpiller eaten.
    Joe 1:5 Awake, ye drunkards, and weep; and howl, all ye drinkers of wine, because of the new wine; for it is cut off from your mouth.

    The locusts described here in Joel are teaching the generations of false doctrine that have come at least since the time of the Scofield Bible till today we have an entire sect of Babylonian Christianity claiming the be Joels Army.
    Joe 2:11 And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?
    Gog was Joels son, the “Army” is the Gog Magog army, the Army from the North. This is the false prophets teaching lies from the pulpits in todays Harlot church. If God didn’t make it clear enough one of the leading false prphets today has “Joels Army” tatooed to his chest.

    God does save a portion from this deception, his remnant.

    Joe 2:20 But I will remove far off from you the northern army, and will drive him into a land barren and desolate, with his face toward the east sea, and his hinder part toward the utmost sea, and his stink shall come up, and his ill savour shall come up, because he hath done great things.
    Joe 2:25 And I will restore to you the years that the locust hath eaten, the cankerworm, and the caterpiller, and the palmerworm, my great army which I sent among you.
    Jer 51:14 The LORD of hosts hath sworn by himself, saying, Surely I will fill thee with men, as with caterpillers; (locusts) and they shall lift up a shout against thee.

    The years that the locusts have eaten are the years that the house of God has allowed false doctrine to come in.

    Luk 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

    Jerusalem is the true church, in the inner court, that is today surrouned with false prophets, IE the Army for the North, Gog Magog.

    Like I said the Gog Magog war is raging right now in every corner church.
    .
    very time you see reference to the Northern Army you’ll see reference to the harvest in the text. The Gog Magog deception is what sepperates the wheat from the tares.
    God’s sheep hear his voice they aren’t decieved. They are waking up to the apostasy one by one right now

    Jer 51:39 In their heat I will make their feasts, and I will make them drunken, that they may rejoice, and sleep a perpetual sleep, and not wake, saith the LORD
    The Tares never wake up.

    http://www.watchmenweekly.com

    Chris

    • Whoa, Chris. Your interpretation of present day events are dramatically flawed, I’m afraid. First, the 1,000 year reign of Christ, yes, takes place here on earth, but He will be present in bodily form ruling and reigning with a rod of iron. His kingdom is His government that will pervade this planet. Common, Chris, now, do you expect me to believe that He is somewhere sequestered out of sight where no one can see Him? He is the Prince of Peace! Where is the peace on the planet at present??? There is no peace. These two points alone will prove your thesis is incorrect–with all do respect to your opinions. Thanks for taking the time to comment. KWH

  11. mischa

    And this is exactly why I believe in literal revelation. Christ came quite literally the first time and He will do so again. Otherwise the weak and naive are left to be deceived by those who speak eloquently with their thought provoking and deeply researched studies. What is literal is spoken as such. What is figurative is clear and is left not to those who study to know the things of the end, but to those so study to seek the Father. When you know the Father, you know the way in which He speaks. You understand His speech, His personality and consistency of His character. So when He speaks of beasts, its like a knowing glance or inside joke between friends. You get it, those around you hear, but do not understand. When He speaks plainly, there is nothing to figure out. He does not hide from His children. He is revealed to those who seek Him.

    Luke 10:21
    In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.

    ~

    Jeremiah 23:25-27
    25I have heard what the prophets said, that prophesy lies in my name, saying, I have dreamed, I have dreamed.
    26How long shall this be in the heart of the prophets that prophesy lies? yea, they are prophets of the deceit of their own heart;
    27Which think to cause my people to forget my name by their dreams which they tell every man to his neighbour, as their fathers have forgotten my name for Baal.

    ~

    2 Thessalonians 2:10-12
    10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
    11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
    12That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

    ….Riddle me this…those who love a riddle, If God did not speak plainly, if the truth were not literally apparent…why the need for a “strong delusion” ? If God has already hidden His secrets, why the need to blind the nonbeliever even further? God is in plain sight brothers and sisters. Trust HIS words. A strong delusion can only be sent for one reason, and that’s that the truth is so plain, so obvious that a spirit must be sent to cause them not to believe what they see so clearly.

    Finally…from the mouth of the Son of God, words to be trusted above all….

    John 16:25-29

    25These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall NO MORE speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you PLAINLY of the Father.

    26At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you:

    27For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.

    28I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.

    29His disciples said unto him, Lo, now speakest thou plainly, and speakest no proverb.

    We now, through Christ Jesus, have a direct connect to Yah, God. The father, creator, Lord of ALL. STOP seeking and trusting the interpretations of man. If you believe that Jesus IS the word of God. That your Bible IS Christ,(The word BECAME flesh, not the other way around) then you must believe He NOW speaks to you PLAINLY because HE says so. ASK….Ask Him. Ask and Ye shall receive. Not maybe or might. You shall…period. But you have to seek HIM.

    Interpretation does NOT come by study. Not years of research, not diligence, not intelligence but by the spirit alone. It is not found, taught, unearthed or revealed by man. It is GIVEN 100% by the will of God alone. So when someone presents their interpretation as truth, walk away. When you hear, I went to school for “this many” years, I’ve studied for decades, Ive dedicated my life to prophecy….walk away. To say that you know what prophecy means with any certainty is to claim to speak for God. But don’t we know ONLY the Bible does that? Its to imply you know the mind of God, but isn’t that what the Holy Spirit is for? Please trust me when I say…when He wants you to know, He tells you Himself. We are to seek ONLY Him. And in doing so He reveals all according to His will, and His timing.

    IF you want to know the truth, study the word to know your Father. Not to know secrets, or the time of the end. But Him alone. In the end, it is ALL that matters. If you die today, what good did knowing the time and way of end do you?

    Study the word….only.

    2 Peter 1:19-21
    19We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
    20Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
    21For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

    Hebrews 11:6
    6But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

    • Bill Turner

      Hi all,
      2 Peter 1:19-21 is a wonderful quote by Misha KJV Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. The Word law (8451 Strongs)comes from the Hebrew Root word Yah’Rah (3384) it means to teach or hit the target. The problem with what most of God’s People have been taught is the Law has come to and end. Rom 10:4 and this understanding is flawed. Messiah is the Goal of the Torah not the end (telos 5056) NIV 1 Timothy 1:5 The goal(telos 5056) of this command is love, which comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.

      The Goal of the torah (God’s instruction) Is to conform us to the Image of his Son but Our flesh was Carnal Nature was weak so we all fell short of HIS GLORY. But Messiah has given us a new nature incorruptible 1pet 1:23 so we can be conformed by the HOLY SPIRIT and The (TORAH) HIS WORD to reach the Goal of becoming like our master Yeshua Mat 10:23-24. We need to audit our beliefs and see if they are the traditions of man or do the come from THE WORD. Yeshua has pointed out that we cannot Hear John 5:38-40,46-47 the scriptures testify of Him and the Only Canon of scriptures was The LAW, PROPHETS, Psalms and the writtings. Have we as believers come to the place that Hosea say’s KJV Hosea 8:12 I have written to him the great things of my law, but they were counted as a strange thing. I believe we have regarded HIS LAW in the church as a strange thing and when we do this we set ourselves up for deception to believe a LIE.
      Let us go back to the SURE WORD OF PROPHECY comparing scripture with scripture and not Ideas of man with Ideas of man. as Hosea says NAS Hosea 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of KNOWLEDGE. Because you have rejected KNOWLEDGE I also will reject you from being My priest. Since you have forgotten the law of your God, I also will forget your children.

      The Word KNOWLEDGE in the Hebrew has a definite article (THE) in front of it but not translated in the english and it should read THE KNOWLEDGE. That Knowledge is (GODS TORAH) will be increased in the last days DANIEL 12:4 has the same definite article and the Context is the last days and everyone written in the book will be delievered from JACOB’S Trouble but look at NIV Daniel 12:10 Many will be purified, made spotless and refined, but the wicked will continue to be wicked. None of the wicked will understand, but those who are wise will understand.

      Let Us Be like the Bereans in ACTS 17 examine the scriptures (new testament was not written then) and be like King David and Yeshua
      KJV Psalm 119:142 Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth.

      Joh 8:31-32 KJV)
      31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
      32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

      Shalom
      Bill Turner

      • Ian

        Bill Turner? Doesn’tsound like a Jewish name to me!
        Do you speak, read and write Hebrew?

      • Bill Turner

        Hi IAN,
        I have posted an answer to your question on this Blog. Thankyou for inquiring and may YHVH bless you and keep you and cause his face to shine upon you and give you shalom. I hope this answers your question.

        Shalom
        Bill Turner

  12. mischa

    Hello Bill. I’d like to add a tidbit if you don’t mind. In Gods language each word is a picture that tells a story. No Letter is simply a letter but a character, no word is a “one meaning” word, but an expression, a whole definition, a story in itself. A word is made of many individual characters each with its own emphasis giving it a deep complex and complete meaning, definition or explanation. For instance, my favorite word ended your note. “Shalom” has come to mean peace or to be known as a greeting. But, the profound meaning of the word is lost in this over simplification. It indeed means peace. But its the peace that comes from the power of the truest and deepest purpose of the word. Shalom’s meaning is what Shalom actually IS. Shalom means and IS what destroys the authority that binds us to chaos. Peace indeed comes of these broken chains…but it suddenly seems just a bit inadequate, no? “Peace” almost undermines the absolute divine power of that word. The word more or less becomes the “name” of its meaning. Not a word ‘with’ a meaning. But a purpose with a name.

    You mentioned the goal of the Torah and the knowledge it provides. Your emphasis of that fact is backed up in more ways than many are aware. I’m sure most of you know/heard of the bible name code. The meanings of the names of the first 10 men counted in the biblical genealogy (Adam to Noah) actually reveal a phrase. I’ll C&P below for those unaware. That phrase describes the Man who was to come. While Torah expresses its own purpose. Its the knowledge of the revelation of who He is. The Hebrew word TORAH means law, or teaching. Jesus said in Matthew 5:17-20 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.— This becomes even more profound when we break down the word Torah by character. Just like with Shalom we come to a complete picture meaning. When breaking down each character into its picture, what Torah fully means is “To reveal the highest man nailed to the cross (or I believe more accurately “stake”) This was thousands of years before crucifixion had even became a form of punishment. Coincidence? So Jesus did, quite literally fulfill the Law, the Torah. He is Revelation, just as it says, of the Torah. Just as the Torah is the Revelation of the Christ. And as with the new testament and future events, the Torah was the knowledge we were to turn to, to confirm the manifestation of the Messiah. The NT will confirm the approach of His return.

    Finally you mentioned the Berean Jews. Note these were people who were more noble. Not because they studied prophecy so diligently that they knew when the Messiah would come and knew that He had already come. But because when they were told of Him, they went straight to the scriptures, They compared what Paul said to the scriptures before they would believe him. If they were more noble because they did not believe MAN without scriptural confirmation, why do we not follow their example? Like them we must compare times and events to scripture as they happen. The bible is validation, proof, confirmation. Not a crystal ball. He gave us the Bible why? Jesus said He told us these things before they would happen so when they DID happen we will believe. Not so we would know ahead of time exactly when. Not so we would know before they happen and be ready. We will know its from Him and true when it lines up with His word. It can’t line up before it happens. The Bible prepares us for what is to come. And as the ball gets rolling the scriptures will either validate the prophecy or not. That is how we will know prophecy. Not because someone had all the answers before the events took place.That is what the Bible is for. It will reveal the truth.

    Genealogy-
    ADAM (adomah) means “man.” This one makes absolute sense, since he’s the first one.

    SETH means “appointed.” Eve said, “For God has appointed me another seed instead of Abel , whom Cain slew.”

    ENOSH (anash) means “mortal,” “frail” or “miserable,” used in the context of incurable grief, sickness, woe or wickedness. It was in the days of Enosh that Man began to defile God.

    KENAN means “sorrow”, “dirge” or “elegy.” Again, this was a dark period of history, and parents traditionally used names that referred to circumstances at birth, etc.

    MAHALALEL (mahalal) means “blessed” or “praise” and (El) was the name for God. Therefore, Mahalalel traditionally means “the blessed God”. (Side note: you’ll see that many Hebrew names include El, such as Dani-el, “God is my Judge,” Nathani-el, “Gift of God,” etc.)

    JARED (yaradh) means “shall come down.” Many scholars attribute this to the time when the “sons of God” “came down” to Earth to corrupt the daughters of men, resulting in the Nephilim (“fallen ones”).

    ENOCH means “teaching” or “commencement.” Later in the Bible, we find that Enoch was the first of four generations of preachers.

    METHUSELAH (muth) means “death” and (shalach) means “to bring” or “to send forth.” Therefore, his entire name means “his death shall bring.”

    LAMECH (root still evident in today’s English meaning “lament”) means in Hebrew context here “despairing.”

    NOAH (nacham) means “to bring relief” or “comfort.”

    Is the knowledge of God’s plan of redemption written the beginning of the Bible? In short….

    “Man (is) appointed mortal sorrow; (but) the blessed God shall come down teaching (that) His death shall bring (the) despairing rest.”

    • Bill Turner

      Hi Misha,
      very good if we look at events that happened to The Fathers, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and their seed we would understand the times that await us. We would then trust in Abba like they did in the Blessings and the Troubles.
      NAS Ecclesiastes 1:9 That which has been is that which will be, And that which has been done is that which will be done. So, there is nothing new under the sun. History is prophecy!
      KJV Ecclesiastes 3:15 That which hath been is now; and that which is to be hath already been; and God requireth that which is past.

      KJV 1 Corinthians 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
      2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
      3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
      4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
      5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
      6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.
      7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.
      8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.
      9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.
      10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.
      11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
      12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
      Our Fathers looked forward to messiah and we look at the past and Trust In HIM and share in the same faith.
      I am glad to see the spirit speaking to brothers and sisters about eze 38 and its not the same standard of man’s traditions we have listened to for many years and there are those who are looking at all the evidence (God’s Word) From Gensis to Revelation. I know I don’t have all the pieces of the puzzle but as that day approaches we will have a greater understanding and we need each other because Abba has given insight to others. Jacob’s trouble will be a time for the light to shine for Abba’s Children in the time of darkness that is coming to our world Gensis 31-32 shows us trouble behind and trouble ahead but Abba changed Jacob’s Name to Israel as he returned in obedience to THE LAND and he never walked the same again. Could this history repeat itself again through his seed? Something to ponder on.
      Shalom
      Bill Turner

  13. mischa

    Amen Bill! Beautiful post. I remind people so often to look into how things came about the first time. Stop ‘trying’ to decipher predict, decode…its all there in plain sight. Its amazing when reading thru the OT how many things happened 2-3 times. Elijah brought a boy back from the dead, Elisha did also. But is there a reason that one knew of the death beforehand and the other didnt? It shows us something…if we’re paying attention. They both parted the Jordan as well. Most only know of Lazarus, but there were many raised. Many many stories are repeated, yet no one stops to think or to trust the patterns laid out for us. This is why I emphasize know your Father! There is a reason we are told to study the Word over and over. People think believing is enough. They do not realize just how important their dedication to this marriage is. If your relationship with just the bible alone was a marriage…would it last? How would any spouse that you only spent 1 hr a week with feel? How well would you know them? Would they believe you loved them if you just spoke to them occasionally, usually to ask for something? How many of us love His word more than anything else? Put Him first in all things? Are more dedicated to Him than to hobbies, TV, jobs, friends, self? Does he have a significant place in our lives? Any place at all other than an occasional passing thought? We are known by our fruits. Its the acts, the works of our love and faith that justify us. Anyone can say they know Him, love Him, believe in Him. But how many prove it, show it, live it? Christ said He knows His sheep and they know His voice when He calls. We cannot know His voice when we hear it if we’ve never listened to Him in the first place. How can we say we love Him if we are not walking in obedience? How can we love someone we don’t really know?

  14. Bill Turner

    Hi Ian,
    Yes I read Hebrew and speak some. I am not Jewish. Do you have a problem with Jew? Hebrew Is the language God spoke in what many call the Old Covenant to the Children of Israel. Although there are several covenants in the Old Testament and nome have been done away with. Jew comes from the tribe of Judah or Yehuda it means Paise. This is the tribe that Jesus (Yeshua) sprang from and where the Prophets said THE LAW GIVER would come!

    KJV Genesis 49:10 The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.
    If we want to understand the Kingdom Of God Hebrew Is the language and the Culture God chose to Communicate with his people we cannot understand him from a Grego-Roman Western Mindset. We have to have the Mind Of Christ.

    Paul wrote of the same thing in NAS Romans 2:29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.
    God wants to circumcise our hearts to Love and Obey Him. i get ask this question am I a Jew all the time but if we Identify with Yeshua and follow him, I quess many will wonder if we are jewish, Hebrew because this is the language he spoke when on earth. I want to say one thing knowing the language helps our faith increase but Yeshua, Jesus is the one who saves.

    Shalom
    Bill Turner

  15. mischa

    Are posts missing, or consolidated somewhere? Im not seeing them all.

    Bill, Do you own a bible called The Scriptures? Its phenomenal and very Jewish in feel. If you do not own it, I highly recommend it. I’m pretty sure it will quickly become your favorite. I had it recommended to me a little while back and I instantly fell in love. I’ve since passed it on to many, each finding themselves equally in awe of it. I did have to read it side by side with my KJ and Amplified versions each night…and sometimes still do 😉 But there is something very special about the way the publishers chose to preserve the Word.

  16. Bill Turner

    Hi Misha,
    no I’m not aware of the scriptures bible but I have bible works 8 for windows. it has the translations KJV, NIV, NKJV, NAS and many more it also has the Orginal Hebrew and Greek written below the translations. I will read the Hebrew in its orginal meaning and i can point to any word and get the Hebrew or Greek meaning it is a awesome program. I have Complete Jewish Bible, The Chumash by artscroll, The Aramaic English New Testament. Do you have a link to the scriptures Bible? What is so nice about the Hebrew they have Hebrew Idioms that are in the old and New testament that can only be understood from a Hebrew culture and prespective.we have american idioms that can only be understood by living in our culture example The President Lives in The White House. Americans know This Washington DC and Not a literal White House. I have been studying Hebrew Roots for about 18 yrs off and on and since I have retired 2 yrs ago. I have been hitting the Bible everyday. I have also Pastored 21 yrs. stopped in 2001 and Worked in a Steel Mill Retired 32 yrs.

    I am currently keeping Shabbat at http://www.bethtikkun.com/index.htm and Fellowship on Sunday at True North Church in Minerva, Ohio and teach there on Wed nites 6:30 pm -8:00 pm. I have been asked to teach on the feasts but have taught the last 4-5 months on the Kingdom Of God Because the kingdom is the foundation and the feasts are God’s Appointed Times in the Kingdom. they will be celebrated by All Nations In The 1000 yr Reign Of Messsiah

    KJV Zechariah 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
    KJV Zechariah 14:17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

    KJV Zechariah 14:18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

    KJV Isaiah 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

    KJV Isaiah 2:2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD’S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

    KJV Isaiah 2:3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

    KJV Isaiah 2:4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

    We can see here that the Nations Will be required to Follow Torah and Walk in YHVH ways and paths. Those that rule and reign with Messiah will teach the nations TORAH and his ways and paths to the nations. Messiah’s bride will rule the nations with a rod of Iron.
    Rev 2:26-27
    26 ‘And he who overcomes, and he who keeps My deeds until the end, to him I will give authority over the nations;
    27 and he shall rule them with a rod of iron, as the vessels of the potter are broken to pieces, as I also have received authority from My Father;
    28 and I will give him the morning star.
    29 ‘He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. (Assembly)

    As brother Wayne quoted in one of his teachings The Assembly will not be playing harps and floating on the clouds. We will be coming to Jerusalem to rule and reign If we are Worthy of this Honor. This is why Paul pressed for the mark of the High Calling of GOD Phil 3:13-16.
    The Book Of Revelation Addresses to The 7 Churches Praises and rebukes. the promises are only to the Overcomers and in Rev 21:7 the Overcomers Inherit all Things.

    I don’t Think many under stand the plagues in Revelation mirror the Exodus Plagues but there will be a greater exodus in the future that will make people forget the Egyptian exodus.
    (Jer 16:14-15 NAS)
    14 “Therefore behold, days are coming,” declares the LORD, “when it will no longer be said, ‘As the LORD lives, who brought up the sons of Israel out of the land of Egypt,’
    15 but, ‘As the LORD lives, who brought up the sons of Israel from the land of the north and from all the countries where He had banished them.’ For I will restore them to their own land which I gave to their fathers.

    Jer 23:5-8 NAS
    5 “Behold, the days are coming,” declares the LORD, “When I shall raise up for David a righteous Branch; And He will reign as king and act wisely And do justice and righteousness in the land.
    6 “In His days Judah will be saved, And Israel will dwell securely; And this is His name by which He will be called, ‘The LORD our righteousness.’
    7 “Therefore behold, the days are coming,” declares the LORD, “when they will no longer say, ‘As the LORD lives, who brought up the sons of Israel from the land of Egypt,’
    8 but, ‘As the LORD lives, who brought up and led back the descendants of the household of Israel from the north land and from all the countries where I had driven them.’ Then they will live on their own soil.”
    ABBA Is waking up his people, the Exile is about to End we will Inherit the LAND Our Father Abraham was promised if we walked in his footsteps.

    NAS Romans 4:12 and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also follow in the steps of the faith of our father Abraham which he had while uncircumcised.

    (Rom 4:16 NAS)
    16 For this reason it is by faith, that it might be in accordance with grace, in order that the promise may be certain to all the descendants, not only to those who are of the Law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all,

    I Will stop for now don’t know how I got on this rabbit trail but I hope this might be a blessing who read this post. Thank you Misha for inquiring and Please sent the information on THE SCRIPTURE.

    Shalom
    Bill Turner

  17. Bill Turner

    Hi To All,
    I have some revelation on this Subject but I thought I would Post the Question on THE LAST DAY as Yeshua Quoted in John

    NAS John 6:39 “And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day.
    NAS John 6:40 “For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him, may have eternal life; and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”
    NAS John 6:44 “No one can come to Me, unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.
    NAS John 6:54 “He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.
    NAS John 11:24 Martha said to Him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day.”
    Yeshua and Martha had a understanding of What is THE LAST DAY. I would be interested in a Hebraic view from any resource first century or before what was the View on THE LAST DAY?
    I believe It is related to the DAY OF THE LORD but I would like to hear comments on your views.

    Shalom
    Bill Turner

  18. Jennifer

    I was bolled away when I heard Dr. John MacArthur sermon on this very same subject. I have often heard theologians attempt to explain with futility the times inwhich Ezekiel 38 is to occur.
    However my question to you and MacArthur is how does Ezekiel 39 (the burial of weapons for 7 years) play out in this scenario? When in the Bible immediately afterwards is the Great White throne judgment?
    By the way, I am one of those who believed for many years the rapture theology was bad theology and those who espoused such doctrine were out of touch with real Biblical doctrine. I am here to say after much prayer and study, I can admit, I was wrong and I thank God He has opened my eyes in seeing, the whole of eschatology is about God’s promises He’s made to the Church and most importantly to Israel.

    • Thanks for the comment, Jennifer. About the “rapture”–or should we say “catching away of the saints.” There is that time, when Christ returns, that His followers who are alive on the earth, will be changed into their spiritual bodies. They will lift off in those bodies and rise up into the “air”, which is the breathable atmosphere where the birds fly [see this link for the Gr. word for “air” as it appears in I Thess. 4: 17 {http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G109&t=KJV}. Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds , to meet the Lord in the air [Gr. #109: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.” This passage that the rapture is primarily based on. But note that from that point in history, we will forever be with Christ! Where is He going at this very moment in history, as He enters the earth’s air? He is coming back here to earth! to set up His kingdom. Right here. And if we are to”ever be with the Lord,” then we will be descending WITH HIM, for He is coming to walk this earth, His feet to set down on the Mount of Olivets. That is what is going to happen. This idea that we will be instantly poofed out of this earth and wake up in heaven is very unscriptural. It is just a flimsy imagination that someone had and preached and it caught on, like most false doctrines do. We will be “caught up together” with the dead in Christ, all of us in our glorious spiritual bodies, but we will be immediately coming right back down to this earth to roll up our sleeves and help our King set up His Stone Kingdom. Halleluyah! Wayneman

    • Bill Turner

      Hi Jennifer,
      I seen your post I don’t know if wayneman agrees with me But I see Ezekiel 39 happening at the battle Of Revelation 19:17-21 both Eze 39:17-23 and Rev 19:17-21 call for the fowls of the Air to come eat the flesh of Kings. Messiah will rule from Jerusalem 1000 yrs The land of Israel will be cleansed of the bones and the Weapons burned for 7 yrs during Christ reign people will learn not to make war anymore Isa 2:2-4. Messiah will bring his people back to THE LAND OF ISRAEL and eze 39:26 says they will dwell safely because Messiah is dwelling among his people
      (Eze 39:25-29 KJV)
      25 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;
      26 After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid.
      27 When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies’ lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;
      28 Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.
      29 Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.

      After Israel dwells safely for 1000 yrs the Eze 38:8,11,14 takes place when they are at rest with no walls gates or bars Then (Rev 20:7-9 KJV)

      7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
      8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
      9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

      Then Comes the Great White Throne Judgement. Rev 20:10-15

      I applaud Wayneman for posting this. The Lord Show me this revelation years ago on EZE. 38 and I googled the question and found this site that held that EZE. 38 happens after 1000 yr reign of messiah. I hope Wayneman I not jumping out of order. If I am Let me know this is your Blog. I thank you for letting me share.

      Shalom
      Bill Turner

  19. mischa

    http://isr-messianic.org/

    That will take you to the site. I have e-sword Bill. I was able to load the 1994 version of the scriptures to it. So it may be available for your software as well. e-Sword sounds very similar to the what you describe.

    I admire your dedication to the truth. The Scriptures is a great version for those that do not have access to resources or the ability to achieve your level of knowledge, for whatever reason, through their own studies. Many are unable to research or just simply wouldn’t know where to begin to even try to acquire it. Many more have no idea how flawed or inadequate current literature is as far as true and accurate translation goes. Thankfully we have a merciful God who can and will save through His word no matter how man corrupts it.

    Anyway, as far as bible translations go, I do not believe this can be topped. I would love your opinion.

    I agree about peoples general view of Revelation. Many think it is all still to come. They don’t realize its basically the retelling of history, past present and future. The entire and complete history of humanity. And while I agree about its correlation to Moses lifetime, I also found some outstanding and near perfect parallels that occurred in the last 1500 years. It almost seems that while they had taken place in Moses lifetime, each may also have happened again, one for each 1000 years. They may very well all happen at once, in one (40yr?) span again in the end days.

    In Gods time He will reveal.

    • Bill Turner

      Hi Misha,
      I was not able to find the software version. Thank you for the link. I will give my opinion on what I read. I have no problem with the Hebrew Names and understanding our Hebrew Roots But we have to be careful when Bible translations and Books begin to say the names God is pagan Lord and Jesus. These are mostly sacred name movements and some of these groups teach that unless you use these names they deem the correct one you are not saved. I came to the Lord Jesus Christ 38 yrs ago.
      This name is not connected to the Greek God Zeus as some say. Their are many wonderful believers who are looking for truth and in their zeal look to the internet but there are deceptive means that are being used to draw people into their group and theses groups are laying doctrines of Man on the body just like in the book of Gal and Acts15

      NAS Acts 15:1 And some men came down from Judea and began teaching the brethren, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.

      If we look at what these men were saying they were puting a yoke added traditions to the torah on Gentile believers who had put their faith in Yeshua saying they could not be accepted in the synagogue Community unless they went through the 1st century conversion process the Rabbi’s had laid down. The Jerusalem Council spoke on this

      NAS Acts 15:10 “Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?

      NAS Acts 15:9 and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.
      We can see that the Pharisees put the ceremony’s Oral tradition = to the written Torah. Where the apostles put stress on the peoples faith and had put Onl 4 conditions on the Disciples. These 4 conditions would give them access to the synagogue Community. Where they would hear the written Torah and learn to walk in Obedience to it.

      KJV Acts 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

      KJV Acts 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

      We have to be careful that the Enemy doesn’t take us away from the simplicity of the Gospel.

      NAS 2 Corinthians 11:3 But I am afraid, lest as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, your minds should be led astray from the simplicity and purity of devotion to Christ.

      Misha, I hope that I am not offending you. I can see you have a pretty good foundation and grasp of the scriptures. but I think it would be good if you read these sites on the sacred name movement. then you can look at some of the evidence. I am not saying all are wrong on there pursuit of how the names are pronounced but when the say their name is the only correct one look out it might be cultic and They say everyone else is pagan who speaks it different. I personally have a problem with that type of attitude. I follow Yeshua and not movements and My Salvation is based on my trust in Him and Not on worrying if I Say Jesus, Lord Or God that I am pagan. these are the same Yokes I believe the apostles fought being laid on the first century disciples. The Only reason I am saying all this is a care for God’s Flock and love his people. I pray that they won’t be led astray.
      (Act 20:28-30 KJV)
      28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
      29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
      30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

      Here are some of the sites on the errors of the sacred name movements.

      http://www.sacrednamemovement.com/JesusZeus5.htm
      http://www.seedofabraham.net/jesusyeshua.html

      Here is a Book that Institute for Scripture Research That puts out the translationThe Scripture The Book Is called Come Out of Her My People below is the link

      http://www.isr-messianic.org/downloads/copreface.pdf

      Misha even though I study Hebrew and am searching for truth it will never make me anymore acceptable To THE FATHER. Jesus is THE WAY, TRUTH and THE LIFE it Is the ONLY WAY TO BE ACCEPTED BY THE FATHER as the way of salvation.
      (Eph 1:5-7 KJV)
      5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
      6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
      7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

      The Old Hymn Amazing Grace rings in my ears. What wonderful Love Our Father Spared not His Only Son And gave Him up for Us. It truly demands a response by those who trust and believe in Yeshua =Jesus. I hope you understand that I am not slamming THE SCRIPTURES translation just being a concerned Brother In Messiah To make others aware of the traps that are in the Hebraic Movement of which I believe Abba is restoring the truth But There are counterfeiters out and about In The Hebrew Movement just as with any truth God tries to restore. Let me know what you think about the evidence and the links. You may think I am offbase but I would value your Opinion.

      Shalom
      Bill Turner

  20. mischa

    http://isr-messianic.org/

    The above link had a list of downloadable versions but I did not see bibleworks 8. Try http://eliyah.com/thescriptures/ This is the online version. At the very top of the page you can choose which book to read, and from there which chapter.

    Bill, I found this site almost the same way. It was my father who “saw” EZ38 this way and after careful prayer and study brought it to me. He presented the chapter then said take the chapter up in prayer until we can discuss it. Then, we met and as he read each verse he questioned/tested me. His face lit up as I fully agreed with his findings before he actually presented his opinion. It was my first study of the chapter after my decision to go beyond believer (my parents were saved when I was 5, 32 years ago) and actually walk in obedience (5-6 years ago). After 1-2 years of discussing this with my father who kept saying, “I still haven’t heard anyone else teach it” or “I don’t know if anyone else sees it this way” I also turned to Google and literally typed in the exact title of this thread 😉

    Re: Bill and Jennifer…do either of you see strong parallels in this period explained in EZ 39 and the reign of King Hezekiah? Since Isaiah plays a role, I would include Isaiah chapter 6 as I find it has a balance or symmetry connecting the events of Hezekiah and EZ 39. Much like past biblical events connect to end time events. I’d encourage a study to see what the Lord may show you.

    Wayneman…again, on yet another oft twisted prophecy I find myself agreeing with you completely. The rapture and this whole “left behind” idea is so far removed from biblical fact.

    The concept of the rapture (and basically all of dispensationalism) came about in the 19th century. The idea of the rapture is based on a faulty reading of 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18. Those who believe in the rapture read this passage without any historical awareness of its context. They believe that when the trumpet sounds, Jesus will appear to some, and believers will be lifted from the earth, meet Jesus in the sky and float off somewhere special while God unleashes his wrath on the earth. But there is absolutely no biblical backup for this. As as we all know, there is nothing that is to happen that is left exampless. There is nothing to happen or to be understood that is not confirmed somewhere else in the bible. Why would this be different? The historical setting for 1 Thess 4:13-18 is that of a visit of a conquering Emperor to a city. When Roman Emperors traveled back to Rome after conquering and plundering the enemy, they would do so with a great procession. As the procession approached a city the people of that city would go out to meet the procession and accompany the Emperor to the city. That’s what the Lord’s people will do when their triumphant Emperor returns! They will hear of his procession (1 Thess 4:16), they will “go out” to meet him (1 Thess 4:16-17 – apparently
    along with those who are raised from the dead), and they will accompany the Emperor to his destination (1 Thess 4:17) – if we are alive, we will meet him and come along with him to earth). Bottom line, 1 Thess 4:13-18) is not about a secret rapture, it’s about the second coming of Jesus! Biblical confirmation? The parable of the bridegroom and 10 virgins. We also see the term as early as Gen 14: 17And the king of Sodom went “OUT TO MEET” him after his RETURN from the slaughter of Chedorlaomer, and of the kings that were with him, at the valley of Shaveh, which is the king’s dale.
    18And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.

    ….Who comes in the order of Melchizedek? Hmmm 😉

    @ Bill again. Nothing you can say when bible based with intent to correct me, as a sister in Christ with regard to my walk in Him, could I ever find offensive! Even if you were wrong or I disagreed 100%.
    I’ll say this, speaking only of this translation. I find it unparalleled as far as anything I could ever get in English. Im not sure exactly what you read, I have to visit the site again, as well as your links. I often tell the “pagan obsessed” people I meet that just about all we do is grounded in paganism in some way. For all I know the very land my house is built on was pagan…should I rebuke my home? I’ve seen well intended believers so obsessed with holidays and birthdays, traditions and rituals that their extremism does more to repel than to educate. But then in counter-rebellion, come those who are so busy “watching out” for anyone who uses trigger words…rapture, pagan, tithing, baptism, Catholicism, wearing crosses, the true sabbath etc…that they forget even the most misguided can still love the Lord and have their motives grounded biblically if not yet their knowledge. I also have to admit that I’ve even learned a thing or two from some of the most notoriously corrupt televangelists that dare to speak in Gods name…. but If God can use a mule… 😉
    I promise you, I am very careful. That is not to say stop warning me, ever. Im far from flawless. But I use great care in what I teach, proclaim as truth or attempt to understand. When I purchased this bible I saw nothing on their sites that attempted to impose any of their teaching as Gospel or push their way as the only way. I did see their explanation as to why they decided to re-research the scriptures, how mistranslations motivated them, some history and a few opinions. But nothing that seemed condemning. However while those things might invalidate their motives or raise a few flags, it wouldn’t change the fact that this is a beautifully “true to the original” version of Gods word.
    If what they stated was factual, and not laced with judgment, I see no fault. We should inform each other, as you just did me, of all we know as far as what is sinful. To allow someone to continue to sin because ‘we’ think something is “no big deal” is also wrong, correct? We cannot force, threaten or scare someone into the behavior we deem more “christian.” But we can put all we know out there and allow believers to act on their own convictions. It is our convictions on which we are judged. Not on the righteousness of others. So telling an origin story to hopefully help growth is one thing. When you are looked at as or wicked for saying “Jesus” in place of “Yehushua” I take issue. Romans chapter 14 is very clear on this matter as is 1Tim 4. Doesn’t all of this defeat the purpose of Christ. Are we not all wretched and unworthy? Doesn’t God say He is NOT a respecter of persons?

    Colossians 2:13And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

    14Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

    15And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

    16Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

    17Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

    18Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by

    This works both ways of course. I saved your links and will take as look hopefully this evening. If not, perhaps the Lord will find it in His grace to give me a chance tomorrow. Thank you again!

    • Thanks, Mischa, for your comment. I appreciated what you said about the rapture being totally bogus. I knew there were other brothers and sisters out there, and it is so good to hear from you. Check out these other articles: https://immortalityroad.wordpress.com/2008/08/05/no-pre-tribulation-rapture-gods-elect-on-earth-during-tribulation/ and https://immortalityroad.wordpress.com/2008/08/02/the-rapture-a-parachute-that-will-not-open/ Wayneman

    • Bill Turner

      Hi Mischa,
      I can tell by your reply you are very careful and I’m Glad you have a Wise earthly father that has helped raise you. I am really encouraged that a Young Lady like you is seeking to know the scriptures. The link and the place I would like you to notice is from the Book Come out of her my people produced by the Institute for Scripture research look at page 5 at bottom of page and you will see they List Jesus and Christ as Pagan http://www.isr-messianic.org/downloads/copreface.pdf

      As far as the Hebrew names the use in place of greek or english In the Translation THE SCRIPTURES. I have no problem with, although I wonder if they have footnotes that say these English or Greek names are pagan. I find it interesting that they translate from Greek manuscripts.
      The other thing I would point out The Septuagint which was translated from Hebrew To Greek completion about 132 BC. The Word for Joshua was Iesous or in English Jesus. From what I have read where they offer the Scriptures and The Book Come out of her my people. the Institute has a problem with Jesus and Christ. I know the Church has gotten into paganism from the 4th century and on and God is showing his people the truth in the scriptures. It really grieves me when I see deceptive means when people say Jesus is a pagan name tied to ZEUS, and GOD, LORD are pagan. This causes Believers to question their faith in Jesus and may cause them to stumble. I know and believe that the Hebrew is the Holy language but It was God at the Tower of BABEL who caused the lanuages to be divided among the people and Yeshua and Daniel spoke Aramaic. I believe God can use any language to get his message across he is Sovereign. I know that I am fallible but I trust in Him to keep me from falling.
      (Jud 1:24-1 KJV)
      24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
      25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

      The Question you posed about Hezekiah linked to Gog and Magog and I listened to Diana Dye at Bilble Interact on God’s Learning Channel. She said the rabbi’s do link Hezekiah= Messiah and the Assyrians to a future picture of this battle. I can see some of that being a possibility. One thing for sure is the Final fulfillment of eze 38 I see at rev 20:7-9 and the evidence is there in the scriptures.
      The Pastor today ministered on Hebrews Chapters 3 & 4 about entering the rest of God. I believe this is prophetic for our time because will will have to Trust IN HIM and TROUBLE is just ahead. By hearing HIS VOICE and TRUSTING IN HIM we will enter his Rest= PROMISES and overcome the TROUBLES. If we don’t hear HIS VOICE and TRUST HIM we will be overcome by THE TROUBLES. I hate to burst the Rapture theory but we will be here when the TROUBLES happen. I pray many will hear HIS VOICE AND BEGIN TO TRUST HIM AND ENTER HIS REST = SABBATH so they won’t be overcome by the troubles.

      KJV Daniel 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
      Mischa you have been blessed because YHVH has given you , The hearing ear, and the seeing eye, the LORD hath made even both of them. (Pro 20:12 KJV)

      The verse is 20:12 we are close to the year 2012. we will all need this verse in the days ahead.

      thank you for your reply and sharing you and your father’s insight on eze 38

      Shalom
      Bill Turner

  21. mischa

    First Bill, you called me young lady. I like you just a little more today, than I did yesterday 😉

    The bible itself has no origin or opinion based footnotes that Ive crossed in my reading. Once scripture starts, its 100% Gods word and the typical “a,b,c” footnotes you’ll find in any bible. In the preface they more simply explain their reasons for yet “another translation” but offer no opinions or judgments as to its superiority or to the corrupt or pagan nature of others. Even in the passage you asked me to read, they simply offer origins as they see them, and explain what “they” do not accept or is considered as deceptive in nature. There will always be a broad spectrum of believers from the generic–christian is the box I check on my insurance forms–to the unwavering fundamentalist. We must not judge the generic or choose to feel judged by the fundamentalist because we see them taking it “too far”
    I have four children that I raise according to the word. Even to some Christians I am a little “too” much. Yet I see the Duggars (the umpteen kids and counting family) and think, wow, Im such a slacker! They really really do all things according to the words. Zero debt, TV or worldly influence at all. Their girls go swimming in dresses covered from neck to ankle. If they explained their reasons for this, am I to take them and apply to my sense of spiritual inadequacy? It is just how they lead their lives. Come out of her my people may, in the opinion of many, go to far. But its how they see the truth. And if they are devout believers choosing to walk in obedience, then in their minds they must present that info to help remove the stumbling blocks from the path of other believers.
    Now, Im not saying I agree with all they say. And I think your stronger point is how it can influence those that are not yet fully informed, and possibly cause them to inaccurately form opinions or make decisions and fall into the control of “religion”I agree with you on that. Sadly, we can’t make all those who are new in Christ, start slowly. And its up to God to give and help them apply their wisdom in the face of all the overwhelming info out there. Best you can do, is exactly what you’re doing. Tell people to beware, not judge or feel judged, and test all things against scripture, and not to believe anything anyone says just because they say so. Study diligently, vigilantly and seek wisdom and understanding direct form the spirit, not out own minds

    Is there a way you can link me to Diana Dye? Im not familiar with any teachings for Hez as it relates to the end or Gods learning channel. I would love to listen.

    I agree that bringing up end days is touchy and risky, but I agree. As a matter of fact, in the last few years I feel as if there has been no rest from spiritual warfare…

    Ephesians 6:11-13

    11Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

    12For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

    13Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

    My rest and peace is in Christ. But boy, the attacks never seem to stop coming. The master of this earth is at full arms, and we must be also. I do not believe there is very much time left. I would dare to say (tho I would never teach as Gospel or absolute fact) that we have less than 20 years left. I’ve looked at it several distinctly different ways, and all come with a few years of 2029. Again, the Lord can tarry another 1000 years if He so chooses, But our spirits seems to be restless. Heightened. We must keep quietly listening and always be ready! It feels so close. I of course cannot say 2012 will be the end. But I do feel that domino may get its push that year. How I long for the day to be soon!

    To top the last few years of spiritual warfare in my home, I was diagnosed with Lupus after several years of ill health. Reading and study has become quite hard, writing even harder. The enemy knows where to hit for maximum damage! I am having a good week mentally and have been able to follow this thread. I love and thrive on spiritual debate and fellowship. I am grateful for His mercy these last few days! As a footnote. A few weeks after first being Dx’d with Lupus I found out the word Lupus means “Wolf.” One night in prayer I was thinking of how apt the name felt. I felt hunted. A predator, powerful, intelligent and capable was after me. In that moment, my Lord spoke to me. Now, many times hes done so…I’d turn on the radio and just the right scripture was read. Someone would say just the right thing, I’d get confirmation is some form. But this time was different. At my most vulnerable, it was just me and Him. And as I thought on this wolf and offered my willingness to walk with it, if it be God will, I asked Him to help me control my fear and handle is gracefully so I can bring Him glory through it. And His whispered in my ear…it was as clear as a sudden memory, or recollection of a name that couldn’t be recalled earlier…He said to me in my battle with this wolf…”Good thing your Father is a Shepherd.” I cried very unfamiliar tears that night. How simple. My father, my Lord is my Shepherd, He is with me. His rod and staff will comfort and restore. And I will fear no evil as I walk in this shadow, because He is with me. I have no reason to fear. He says, Be still and know that I am God. Amen.

    Oh and yes, my fathers wisdom is vast, I respect him greatly. My mother is a quiet and rested servant who sees it all simply, with a childs heart. While he is a warrior fighting against this world to get to the truth. There is a balance in them, one living the word leading by the example of the spirit and the other teaching the word through the wisdom of the Spirit.

    I appreciate your words Bill. I fight for my Lord and am passionate about His truth and seeking Him intimately. There is a great quote I give to single Christian girls seeking true christian men. “A woman should be so lost in God, that a man needs to seek Him in order to find her” I am far from single and searching. But My goal is to be so lost in God that all must seek Him in order to find me. I find that this is so true. Like with raising my children, none can really understand my way, until they understand Gods way. I won’t live according to mans understanding.

    Shalom to you as well Bill.

    • HI, Mischa. About the year 2029 being significant…I mention in ch. 37, the last chapter of my book, THE UNVEILING OF THE SONS OF GOD, the following concerning this very date. Here is an excerpt:

      “Still, the “day is as a 1,000 years” passage just won’t go away. It has been approximately 6,000 years, and still He has not come back. Some say that He could come back tonight. Some say that He has already come back, and we are living in the 1,000 year reign of peace already. The scriptures say that we will not know the day or the hour of His return. It did not say, however, that we could not know the year.

      I am proposing the following, not as a prophecy, but as something to ponder. The 6,000 year reign of natural man has always been figured from Adam’s creation in 4,004 B.C. What if in God’s eyes the 6,000 year period starts with Adam’s fall instead of Adam’s creation? Where in the Bible does it say that we should calculate every date from Adam’s creation? Should we presume that Adam sinned in his very first year of existence? We do not know for sure when he sinned in the garden, but what if that year was a few years after his creation. What if the year of Adam’s fall is the starting point of sinful man’s 6,000 year span of time on earth. A day is as a thousand years. Six days shall God work with Adam—in Adam’s sinful lost state! There is a 1,000 year sabbath day period of rest coming to this earth. It is prophesied. But when does the six day 6,000 year period end? What if the starting point of the 6,000 year period begins with Adam’s sin?

      If, for instance, Adam fell, say, 33 years after his creation by God, then the first 4,000 years ends in the year 29 A. D., which is the time when Adam’s sin was placed upon the Lamb of God’s shoulders on the tree. It was at the death, burial and resurrection that the curse was lifted, empowering Christ, the last Adam, to rise in us. Since that time, only 1,971 years would have elapsed. In this scenario, we would lack 29 years till the 1,000 -year reign, or 22 years before the Tribulation Period starts [This book was published in 2001. So 2029 would be the year, in this scenario, that Christ would begin reigning as King here on earth].

      This is, of course, a supposition at best. No one knows for sure. In fact, it may not be for us to know the year when He is coming back, but He puts that wondering in our hearts. And another thing—it may not be for us all to be alive when He comes back to set up His reign.

      The point is this: We need to lay up for His sons that are coming. He said that they are coming, and they shall come forth. We may just have a role to play like the prophets and apostles who saw these things from far off and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims here on this earth. And they laid up for their children and grandchildren the truth of this heavenly city populated by us. WE are the “heavenly things” who were purified by a greater sacrifice than the blood of animals (Hebrews 9:23). Yes, we are those “heavenly things,” His prodigal sons [and daughters]. And some of us will be last and some will be first to be revealed to the world.”

      Question: Where did you get the year 2029? Wayneman

    • Bill Turner

      Hi Misha,
      Here is a link to Diana Dye http://www.rootsoffaith.net/profile/DianaDye and she teaches on Gods Learning Channel Weekly http://www.glc.us.com/site/watch.php?program=4 although that teaching is not available on GLC. The teaching just lightly mentions the connection Between Hezekiah and The Assyrians To the battle Between Messiah and Gog and Magog I’ll sent the link to you tube on it thw Quailty is not good and its the overview of the teaching.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiW0evcJ3Qw.

      The Link I gave you at GLC is in there archives the last 5 teachings. I really Like Diana she gives enough information to make you dig into God’s word or Google some of the thoughts you get from her teachings. another place is http://bibleinteract.com/presenters/dianadye.asp here you can purchase teachings of hers I always look at what teaching they have available and they have specials most months and you really can get savings. Last of all if you have questions I believe you can email her.

      I do like to know what the Sages think from a Hebraic view but I always take it as commentary and not equal with the written TANAK. We can Gleen wonderful insight from others. Like you said God can use even a mule to give instruction. LOL, One thing for sure we can not put God in a box. Alot of denominations have a small box. That’s why I find it refreshing the posts here. I really think most teaching on Eze 38& 39 teaching puts our understanding in a small box.

      I’m glad to hear your review on The Scriptures Translation and that they have no agenda with The Names. I have no problem from just reading the names and places from the Hebrew context from a translation. I do have a translation (that translate like this) that I won’t name but they do have an agenda they have footnotes that refer to their website on doctrinal issues. This is where Believers can be shaken in their foundational faith.

      I will pray for you and your family on the Lupus but from what I am hearing your Spirit hasn’t been impaired. I can see you have given much thought and study of the scriptures. I remember your expression on Shalom and you are right it has mulitple meanings. I will include one here that YHVH give you Total Shalom one aspect of this word is to be Whole or Complete. Most of the time its a proccess and not something that is instant. One of my favorite verses is Isa 26:3

      Isaiah 26:1 In that day this song will be sung in the land of Judah: “We have a strong city; He sets up walls and ramparts for security.
      2 “Open the gates, that the righteous nation may enter, The one that remains faithful.
      3 “The steadfast of mind Thou wilt keep in perfect peace, Because he trusts in Thee.
      4 “Trust in the LORD forever, For in God the LORD, we have an everlasting Rock.

      Keep trusting IN YHVH and may HE give you SHALOM SHALOM is what the hebrew literally reads.

      (Num 6:24-26 NAS)
      24 The LORD bless you, and keep you;
      25 The LORD make His face shine on you, And be gracious to you;
      26 The LORD lift up His countenance on you, And give you peace.’

      Shalom
      Bill Turner

      • mischa

        Thank you for your prayers Bill. And for that scripture. I remember those who came before me, what happened to those who sought him..
        Psalm 34
        4I sought the LORD, and He answered me,
        And delivered me from all my fears.
        The Spirit was with me in my very worse weeks effected by Lupus. Its weird because my body and mind felt impaired. I kept feeling like my relationship with Him suffered. But of course it was me, not Him. He stayed close and kept reminding me, I’m right here. Its not Me who is distracted, let me bring you back. But some times were so hard, I was so strained that when I needed Him most, I was too tired to call. Im fighting through that now. And the spiritual support of my family in Christ, and the spiritual studies here, they help immensely. I am grateful 😉

        If you guys haven’t seen this, I promise you that this link I am posting is about the simplest way you will ever see the profound nature of Jesus. Watch closely. It seems to start silly, but the message is there from the start. Its only 5 minutes, but wow does it show a lifetime.

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGwiYYXO17g

  22. mischa

    Wayneman, it has always been my thought that all measure of time began after Adams fall. While we know there was both day and night, I believe that was for balance, for rest. I do not believe there was time before this. God is outside of time. Its meaningless to Him. So if He is measuring it, its for us. Therefore time will start and end by His word, but according to our measure. Time in my view, was part of the punishment of the fall. So I agree, that time (probably) started when God spoke the curse. Also, thinking purely in terms of human limitations that Adam may not even have been subject too…Adam named all of creation before he was given Eve, Now if no children came before the fall, and Seth, son #3 came when Adam was 130, I find it very difficult to believe that he did all that work, in such a short time. Can we feasibly assume there were less species created than there are now? Yes. And if he simply named all canines “dog” that would include wolves, coyotes, dingos etc dramatically reducing the time taken. All cats (felines), dogs (canines), horses (equines) etc big and small are each one species. Birds might be separated-dove, crane, parrot and so on. as they are not technically related. Now remove all pestilence and we further reduce his workload. Still, this would take time. But, was he like God and not subject to time at all? God formed every beast and bird and brought them to Adam. This is described as a process, oddly Adam is present and alone when God forms the beasts and takes them to him even tho they were created before Him. But was it done in a moment, a day or is time not mentioned because it didnt exist? I’d also like to pose a little something to ponder. Male and female were created on day 6, but were Adam and Eve? Chapter 1 goes over creation. Notice we see let there be light, before the sun moon and stars are created, Is this a hint? It may not be, but lets call it hint #1. Hint #2 Adam was created, Eve was made.
    Wouldnt something have to be created before it could be made? Be possible before it could exist? In chapter one we see creation coming to be. So is Ch2 elaborating on Ch1? Was Ch 1 just a summery and 2 when He goes into detail? Did light have to be created, before an object that could give light, like the sun, could exist? God said “let” there be in Ch 1. To let is to allow. If I allow my dogs outside, does that mean they are outside right now? Or is it a possibility I make available to them? When it came time for Man, the wording is a bit odd,…
    V27, And Elohim created the man in His image, in the image of Elohim He created him-male and female He created them,
    The singular and plural play out in Gods name as well. v26 Let us make make man in our image according out our likeness. Then v27 (above) is singular again.
    So in Ch2 God rested, He blessed the 7th day in v3. Then v4 its off again….These are the “births” of the heavens and the earth when they were created in the DAY they were “Made” Then it goes into detail about all that was made…but did not yet come to be?? Is it possible that He spoke everything into existence over 7 days, but then all on one day caused it to come to be? Would this prove time had not taken effect?
    Male and female are created day 6. But were they “made” after the week was over? Like an architect draws a blueprint. He creates the building before it is made. I understand many don’t like the 7000 year theory. But the fact is, the almighty did not need to take 6 days to create. He did not need a day to rest. He did not have to tell us these details. What if creation was made possible in the 7 days that each thing was called into existence, but not made manifest until after? Also, if “man” was made in “their” image yet God made ‘the’ man is “His” image, Is it possible that eve was made from man, and not earth like every single other thing in creation because Adam was the embodiment of both genders, but the feminine form removed from him and made into her? The only one capable of being his partner was actually his “part.” If we ALL were made in Gods likeness and we are male and female, wouldn’t that make God the fullness of both genders, rather that the absence of gender or simply male? When a child is created, a single being is made from two beings, yet still just one complete being. Is the mystery of marriage more literal than assumed? Meaning, my husband and I literally are one human being separated into two, rather than two that became one? I know it seems I just went way off topic, but it isn’t really. The pattern is consistent. Things were made possible but not fully created, like salvation before Christ. Time was possible but didnt start ticking. Man was “made” in their image. “Created” in His image. Separated from himself to become two…a greater first and then a lesser yet the same, equal, one. The greater creates children the lesser manifests them. Complete opposites combining to form a complete unit. In the beginning was the word. That word, became Flesh. two, but the same. Read very carefully thru those first two chapters with the idea that you were all wrong…then decide if you in fact were wrong or right the first time.

    There are several ways I came to 2029. One has to do with the 7000 year theory, without having to count the years from Adam up. Jesus said there will be no signs, only Him. He was the beginning of the end days. If He is the sign, what does He say about his return?

    This is an evil generation: they seek a sign; and there shall no sign be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet. For as Jonas was a sign unto the Ninevites, so shall also the Son of man be to this generation.

    And…For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

    When Jesus walked the earth, many didn’t believe because they too waited for signs, the kingdom coming down from heaven and the end of everything as they knew it. They were waiting for our end, Their savior came and went and they were blind. As Jonah came to warn Nineveh, Jesus came to warn us. The generation of Jesus extends to us all. But Then He mentions the three days and nights. You said above ” It was at the death, burial and resurrection that the curse was lifted” To parallel that and the 6000 years perfectly, take those three nights. We know Jesus was about 4000 years after Adam and 2000 years ago. We know The Ninevites repented and were saved from destruction after 3 days. We know their salvation was complete because they will rise in judgment in the end. When will the curse on this earth be fully lifted? Not until the adversary is destroyed. Well, if 3 days do equal 3000 years, and Jesus was crucified at about 29AD then the last 1000 years would begin at about 2029.

    Just as an aside, 1335 days (years) from the erection of the Dome of the Rock is 2024. The abomination is repeatedly called an “it” its not a man.

    • Wow. Mischa. Thank you for sharing this. We have come to 2029 from different sides of the spectrum–from Adam’s sin, the beginning of the curse…and from the other end, the end of the 6000 year curse and the beginning of the 1000 year reign, the last 1000 years of the 7000 week…Wayneman

  23. mischa

    Glad you were able to stay with me Wayneman 😉 That was quite a diatribe I presented there. Sometimes It just all spills out. I’ve developed some neurological issues in the last 2ish years. It sometimes effects my ability to pace or express myself in a coherent manner when I write. I get confused as Im writing and get lost or overwhelmed, then overcompensate. So if I ever post and seem unlike my usual self, please accept this apology in advance!

  24. Bill Turner

    Hi Misha,
    This is interesting our pastor ministered on Hebrews 12

    NAS Hebrews 12:1 Therefore, since we have so great a cloud of witnesses surrounding us, let us also lay aside every encumbrance, and the sin which so easily entangles us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us,
    2 fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.
    3 For consider Him who has endured such hostility by sinners against Himself, so that you may not grow weary and lose heart.
    4 You have not yet resisted to the point of shedding blood in your striving against sin;

    I watched the video it is very powerful there are so many things that will distract us from doing ABBA’s Will. That is why we need to read about the Cloud of Witnesses who overcame to encourage us in the everyday trials we encounter. Our carnal nature is probably the biggest hinderence to become like the master Yeshua. I believe your post is a conformation on my life on the weights that discourage us in the Great Race to come and cross the finish line (GOD’S PURPOSE). I was meditating on Hebrews 12 and the message and looking at my Life as we are approaching YOM KIPPUR. Our Pastor who is filling in Runs 100 mile races and it takes him about 26 hours straight. He was saying that for every ounce of weight it slows you down so a 100 mile race would cost him about 15 minutes for 100 miles. In my meditation I was thinking on many things that occupy my life that are like weights trying to keep me from reaching the Goal. We are in the Hebrew New Year Rosh HA SHANAH in order for Messiah to increase I must decrease. I need to reflect on the areas of my self life that have to die. Thank you for the comment.
    KJV Revelation 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

    Shalom
    Le’shana Tova
    Bill Turner

  25. hi. from su. i think you got it. thousand year reign. then so in zachariah 14.2 the gathering the nations around jerusalem would seem to be a different battle. when the messiah returns, a great earth quake which splits the mountain in two as this is on a faultline that goes around the earth. one third die in the city. would you debate these scriptures please as well? bless you, wayneman.

    • The key to prove that Christ’s coming found in Zech. 14: 1-16 is different than Ezk. 38 is this: In Zech. 14: 11, it says that after this coming, then “Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.” This is during the 1,000 year Reign of Christ, when He imposes peace all over the earth. When it enters Gog and Magog’s heart to attack Jerusalem, they say in 38: 11, “I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely…without walls…having neither bars nor gates.” This could not be right now, for the Israeli nation has built walls, and they are definitely not “at rest” and they do not “dwell safely” with all of the rockets being fired at them…Also, at the time that the prophecy of Zech 14 takes place, there is not safety in Jerusalem. To the contrary, Jerusalem is embattled, and Christ’s return brings safety, “and the LORD shall be king over all the earth” (14: 9). This begins the 1,000 years of Christ’s peaceful reign that will culminate at the end of it with an attack on the safety and peace of His city Jerusalem…Hope this helps. kwh

  26. sally

    you will know when the 7 years trib. starts when Isreal builds the new tempel the antichrit will take it over. then our lord and savior will come and destroy and we will live in peace for 1000 yrs and then he will let satan out to decieve the people born during the 1000 yrs. then God will destroy them all and satan with them for ever. and then a new earth and new heaven,one that is beyond our understanding.

  27. linda

    wayneman, great Job BTW… I do not understand why so many people insist that this war happens anytime other than when the bible plainly says.
    Like you pointed out Revelation 20 makes it plain when this occurs, I mean what is the motive for trying to place this in another time?

    • Linda, thanks for your comment. The first thing that Christ warns us of concerning the signs of His coming back to earth is, “Let no man deceive you” (Matt. 24). There is great deception out in the world. And this all leads to confusion, which is all brought to us by the devil. That is his job and he is doing it. The motive? Nothing more convincing that a man who thinks he has heard from God. The world is full of ill informed and ill intentioned prophets. They are deceived and are deceiving others. It is part of the great battle between the devil and God being waged in these last days.

  28. Kathy

    I found your site today. As well as I found Revelations 20:8 today while having read Revelations 20 before, many times. Today I was made aware of the Ezekiel prophecy happening after the 1,000 year reign is over. This caused some confusion for me because I had been of the understanding via reading the chapters myself and reading from others this could take place now and upon America. My thought process prior to this awareness was that the anti-christ, tribulation and the Gog-Magog war were all at about the same time before Christ’s return.So, I started asking the question: is the Ezekiel events for two different time periods. I have read some who think that they are while others i have talked with say no, it is as Rev. 20:8 states. Your forum has helped me greatly and I took notes. I also do not agree with the rapture theory. We will be with Christ and our Father on the earth. I truly believe my Father has revealed this to me now and understand so far in my study it will happen after the 1,000 years is over. It is amazing how God reveals his truth to each of us at his appointed times. I am still in awe that I just now see this information after having changed my life in 1988 to keeping the 7th day Sabbath and Annual Holy Days, avoiding unclean meats, working on myself to reflect the character of Christ. I have been studying on this all day. It is late and my mind is tired. God bless you!

    • Thank you, Kathy, so much for your comment. It edifies me greatly to hear from my brothers and sisters. You are so right: It is the error taught by “certain men crept in unawares” that is hindering His people from “partaking of His divine nature.” Peter knew and warned us. True teachings are extremely important. I am so glad you stopped by and that this article helped. Please make more comments and thereby edify me. “Can’t get enough of that fellowship, fellowship, fellowship” [sung to the tune of the Sugar Crisp jingle…something I just remembered from my missionary days…] God bless you richly. Keep in touch. Kenneth Wayne Hancock

  29. I. K. Faucett

    i don’t know what bible you’re reading out of on the rev. 20, 7-9, but it’s talking about the city of the thousand yr. reign, and you make it sound like it’s the new Jerusalem, which it isn’t. read the authorized version, it says compassed the beloved city, not Jerusalem.

  30. Minh

    Why do people think the war of Gog and Magog will be Russia and Iran? Is it because the area of Gog and Magog is under those 2 countries borders at this time? We do not know who will be occupying that area after the 1,000 year reign of Christ is over. So to say Russia and Iran is Gog and Magog is not relevant. However God is very geographic when it comes to his prophecy concerning areas. So the Gog and Magog war will take place at that area but who makes up that army we will not know unless we are the ones in the first resurrection or people who are born and living during the 1,000 year reign. Well actually the army will be made up of people who were born during the 1,000 year reign. It will probably be a mix of all kinds of people who are deceived by the devil. The book of revelations clearly says that their number is like the sand of the sea. So its going to be a huge army. Well just think about it, during the 1,000 year reign people will live very long like preflood times. So the world population will grow very fast and will be numerous in 1,000 years. Given the fact that Christ is reigning there won’t be a shortage of food to feed everyone.

  31. Gary Hicks

    Hello and blessings to all of you- Thank God for those who are called ‘more noble’ in that they are searching the scriptures to see if what they have been told is true..

    At first glance, it would seem that all of Ez. 38-39 is referring to the same Gog / Magog war, and unless God had showed John in Rev. 20:8 about another Gog / Magog war happening at another time, we probably would of never saw it. So it is not correct to assume all of Ez. 38 -39 is referring to the war at the end of the 1000 years, and it is also not correct to assume that all of Ez. 38-39 refers to Armageddon. What we need to see is at what point the context is describing the one war and where the context begins to describe the other one.

    The Gog / Magog war at the end of the 1000 years is addressed from Ez. 38:8 through 38:15, just seven verses, and the rest is all about Armageddon.

    The break in the time context is described in Ez. 38:8 by saying ‘After many days thou shalt be visited…’ The ‘many days’ is the 1000 year period, and the context being described in the following 7 verses proves it.

    Verse 8 states that Israel was brought forth and is dwelling safely… Verse 11 states Gog then proceeds to to go up to the land of unwalled villages, where they are all at rest, dwelling safely, without walls, bars or gates…again, this is hardly the current situation.

    It goes on to verse 16 where the time context is changed back to Armageddon where it begins by saying …”And thou shalt come forth from thy place out of the north parts…” From here on to the end of Ez. 39 it is describing Armageddon as we can see from the following items:

    1) God brings him (Gog) against Israel so the heathen will know God…During the 1000 year reign the knowledge of the Lord fills the earth as the waters cover the sea (Hab. 2:14, Is. 11:9) so everyone already knows God. (Ez. 38:16)

    2) There is a great shaking in the land where everything from men to birds to fish to beasts of the field and the mountains are brought down and every wall comes down. (Ez.38:20) This shaking is the great earthquake described in Rev. 16:18-21 describing the great earthquake that happens when the seventh angel pours out his last vial just before the coming of the Lord.

    It is easy to see these are the same events:

    1) Rev. 16:20- “..the mountains were not found” Ez. 38: 20- “..the mountains shall be thrown down.’

    2) Rev. 16:21 -“…there fell upon men a great hail…” Ez. 38: 22 “…and I will rain upon him…great hailstones…”

    3) Ez. 39: 4 “…I will give thee unto the ravenous birds of every sort and to the beasts of the field to be devoured. Rev. 19:17 – “…saying to all the fowls …gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God to eat the flesh of mighty men, of horses and them that sit on them…”

    Ez. 39:2 states God will leave ” the sixth part” of Gog at Armageddon. This sixth part that remains is what is carried on through to the end of the 1000 years where Gog / Magog again appears after the Devil is released out of his prison.

    Blessings to you all…

  32. onehope629

    Hi Wayneman and all…Good to talk to you and thank you for your response.

    A couple of things to consider here is that the destruction at Armageddon specifically includes the fowls of the heaven to eat the flesh of might men and of horses and this blood flows up to the horses bridles.

    The situation at Gog and Magog at the end of the 1000 years just states that fire comes down from heaven and destroys them. Of course there no mention about the second coming at the end of the 1000 Gog / Magog war because, of course Christ and his saints had already came 1000 years prior.

    But this scenario about Jesus coming with his saints is where the flesh of horses and mighty men are mentioned just as is described in Ezekiel 38 -39.

    In Rev. 19 it is being described as Jesus coming with his army in heaven which of course is the saints, and they are coming down from heaven to fight against the beast who goes out against the Lamb.

    This is the scenario at the Second Coming but not the scenario at the Gog / Magog war at the end of the 1000 years. There is no one coming down from heaven, in that the saints have been living on the earth for the last 1000 years. During the 1000 years Jesus is ruling and reigning on the earth, so he is not coming down from heaven…he already did that 1000 years before.

    So in essence, there are no fowls of the air called together to eat the flesh of horses at the Gog / Magog war at the end of the 1000 years, but Ezekiel does describe the fowls of heaven being called to eat the flesh of men.

    There is no legitimate way around the context: Rev. states

    And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
    That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great

    And WHEN does this happen?

    And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

    Who is sitting on the horse? It is Jesus as he descends down from at the Second Coming…not at the end of the 1000 years.

    And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

    And which way is he going? He is coming down from heaven for this is the Second Coming. The saints WERE in heaven, but now they are NOT in heaven but descending down to the earth:

    And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

    And what is the one sitting on the horse going to do? He is going to smite the nations and rule them with a rod of iron. Of course context is the Second Coming and not anything related to what happens at the end of the 1000 years.

    And who is the beast and the kings of the earth? It is of course the same beast who who is over the ten kings that happens at the end of THIS age, not at the end of the NEXT age, or the end of the 1000 year reign of Christ, as it states here:

    And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

    And of course the context is clear again that this is the Second Coming when it states:

    And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

    And what about the fowls of heaven eating the flesh of captains and mighty men? They are seen in THIS time context, but not at the end of the 1000 years:

    And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

    Both of these wars have some similar events, just as the Vietnam War had similarities with World War 2. There were people getting killed, bombings, airplanes, etc, but of course no matter how many similarities there are does not do away with the differences that make it impossible to conclude that World War 2 and the Vietnam War were the same war.

    So it is with the Gog / Magog wars. The one at the Second Coming is distinctly different in both time and context that it can not be confused with the one at the end of the 1000 years.

    But lets consider one other aspect that might make the whole of Ezekiel 38-39 appear to be one war at the end of the 1000 years. It is Ezekiel 38:22:

    “And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone.”

    What I want to highlight is where do we see anything at the time of the Second Coming that describes God raining down on anyone ‘an overflowing rain, great hailstones and fire and brimstone?’

    If we extracted only the ‘fire and brimstone’ element within this verse it could be correlated with what happens at the end of the 1000 years when ‘fire comes down out of heaven and devoured them,” in Rev. 20:8.

    However the context of the pertinent parts of Ezekiel show there is a theme of two things…

    1) The heathen are converted…
    2) Israel comes to know the Lord…

    Heathens converted:

    Ezekiel 38:16 – and I will bring thee against my land, “that the heathen may know me” when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes.

    Ezekiel 38:23 – Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; “and I will be known in the eyes of many nations…”

    Ez. 39:6 – And I will send a fire on Magog, and among them that dwell carelessly in the isles: “and they shall know that I am the LORD.”

    Ez. 39:7- “…and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD.”

    Israel Converted:

    Ez. 39:7- So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more

    ( not letting them pollute his name anymore shows it was at this time they stopped doing it…i.e. they were truly converted at this time…not the situation that appears at the end of the 1000 years where they have been already been converted and are called saints)

    Ez. 39:22- So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.

    (Here again the context is clear…they were converted at this point, i.e. at the Second Coming and should not be confused with the condition that exists at the end of the 1000 years where they are already converted.)

    Ez. 39:25- Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name

    (Time context is apparent…NOW, not after the 1000 years, but at the Second Coming Israel is converted.)

    Ez. 39:27-28 WHEN I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies’ lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations; (Second Coming) THEN (at the same time) shall they know that I am the LORD their God,

    Ez. 39:29 Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.

    (Again the context is that God was hiding his face from them up to this point in time, but at the Second Coming he pours out his spirit upon them and they are converted.)

    But lets get back to the thought of the fire and brimstone shown in Ezekiel 38:22:

    And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone.

    There are scriptures pointing to the Second Coming in the Old Testament that describe God descending with fire and brimstone worded in various ways:

    Ps. 50:3 – Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

    Ps. 11:6- – Upon the wicked he shall rain snares, fire and brimstone, and an horrible tempest: this shall be the portion of their cup.

    Ps. 21:9 – Thou shalt make them as a fiery oven in the time of thine anger: the LORD shall swallow them up in his wrath, and the fire shall devour them.

    Ps. 97:3- A fire goeth before him, and burneth up his enemies round

    Isaiah 29:6 – Thou shalt be visited of the LORD of hosts with thunder, and with earthquake, and great noise, with storm and tempest, and the flame of devouring fire.

    Is. 30:30- And the LORD shall cause his glorious voice to be heard, and shall shew the lighting down of his arm, with the indignation of his anger, and with the flame of a devouring fire, with scattering, and tempest, and hailstones.

    Is. 66:15-16- For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire. For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.

    So anyway, we can see that there is fire and brimstone, a great tempest, hailstones, a great earthquake being described to occur at the Second Coming in various scriptures…but how specifically do all these things occur?

    We can go to Revelation and see every one of these events taking their place as the seals are opened, the vials are poured out and the trumpets sound.

    The point I am getting at is that all these events are described in great detail during the tribulation, while the only thing mentioned in Rev. 20:8 when Gog and Magog is destroyed is that fire comes down out of heaven and devours them…i.e. there are no seals to open, no vials, no trumpets as shown to happen during the tribulation. These events highlight the distinctions between the two wars that happen at different times and cannot be correlated to be referring to only one war at the end of the 1000 years.

    The hail / fire / brimstone : (There are many instances of hail and fire and brimstone in Rev. but these are just a few-)

    Rev. 8:7 – The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.

    Rev. 9:18 – By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.

    Rev. 16:8-9 – And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire. And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.

    Rev. 16:21- And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

    ( I read a talent is about 200 pounds…can you imagine the damage? It seems in the Old Testament this happened a few other times…one in Joshua 10:11 – And it came to pass…. that the LORD cast down great stones from heaven upon them unto Azekah, and they died: they were more which died with hailstones than they whom the children of Israel slew with the sword.”

    Also in Ex. 9:24-25 we see the hail was mingled with fire and destroyed every tree…quite the hail storm! “So there was hail, and fire mingled with the hail, very grievous, such as there was none like it in all the land of Egypt since it became a nation. And the hail smote throughout all the land of Egypt all that was in the field, both man and beast; and the hail smote every herb of the field, and brake every tree of the field.

    Earthquake: (Time frame- Second Coming..not at the end of the 1000 years)

    Ez. 38:19-20 – Surely IN THAT DAY (Second Coming…not 1000 years later) there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel, So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground.

    Rev. 16:18- And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.

    Is. 2:19- And they shall go into the holes of the rocks, and into the caves of the earth, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth.

    Is. 13:3- Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.

    Joel 3:16-The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.

    Hag. 2:6 -For thus saith the LORD of hosts; Yet once, it is a little while, and I will shake the heavens, and the earth, and the sea, and the dry land;

    Hag. 2:21 -Speak to Zerubbabel, governor of Judah, saying, I will shake the heavens and the earth;

    Heb. 12:26-Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.

    Anyway, you get the drift…the context of these verses is showing what happens at the Second Coming…not at the end of the 1000 years.

    Blessings to you all…Gary

  33. Rawiri

    Yes, finally! This is the actual biblical order of events as I understand it too. I’m quite frankly disturbed and gobsmacked by how many people (including high profile Christian pastors in some instances) are expecting Ezekiel 38 to happen shortly when the Bible clearly states (based on what it says sbout Gog/Magog events) that this takes place after the Millennial Kingdom. The pre-millennium argument for Ezekiel 38 is nothing more than hype, and its frustrating to see how many people swallow the idea without first checking against the Bible for themselves. Just because something is said with a stunning worship team and lights display in the background does not necessarily mean that it is true.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s